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Author Sergeusz
Registered
#1 | Posted: 20 Apr 2008 13:58 
I have a suggestion to make such function as "Thanks for the post". Members will always know if there posts have helped somebody, and there will be no place for sorting things between members. If you are taking another member negatively. you will not use this function.

Author Paul
Lead Developer
#2 | Posted: 21 Apr 2008 02:34 
Sergeusz
You may check this thread: digging posts.

Author Sergeusz
Registered
#3 | Posted: 21 Apr 2008 12:00 
Paul
It's just what I mean, but this can't be download.
Why not do such an add on? In my opinion, it will be very popular.

Author Paul
Lead Developer
#4 | Posted: 22 Apr 2008 03:49 | Edited by: Paul 
miniBB team is busy with the tasks planned over the year in advance now. Developing add-ons on another hand is a never ending story. So if you or somebody else can't live without something, it is a subject to discuss, but only within our custom support fees. Within 6 years we have developed every major feature the forum might have. Now we have other projects and are interested in keeping this software stable, not overloading it with the new bugs.

It's up to you.

Author Sergeusz
Registered
#5 | Posted: 22 Apr 2008 13:48 
Paul:
Now we have other projects and are interested in keeping this software stable, not overloading it with the new bugs.

Does this mean that there will be no more free add-ons?((

Author Paul
Lead Developer
#6 | Posted: 23 Apr 2008 02:17 
Sergeusz:

Does this mean that there will be no more free add-ons

It depends on the level of investments and sponsorship. If you pay for the add-on when we develop it, by your permission and agreement we can share it with the community for free of course.

In other way we currently don't have plans to release new stuff, except in the nearest feature we will only provide newest version of WordPress auth implementation and search log add-on.

Author Sergeusz
Registered
#7 | Posted: 23 Apr 2008 12:56 
It's a pity, cause I don't have money for being a sponsor of minibb((

Thanks for your work.
With kindest regards

Author Paul
Lead Developer
#8 | Posted: 23 Apr 2008 14:16 
On the other hand, we don't have time to work for free for you - and what could be the reason for it? ;-)

Author Sergeusz
Registered
#9 | Posted: 24 Apr 2008 11:32 
Of course I understand that probably minibb is now your main earnings.
But I think there should be more free add ons, because minibb now needs to be oriented towards large community forums too.
When I started my project, I couldn't imagine that it would be a rather large forum with 700-1000 visitors per day. Minibb was the best forum at that time, but now it's just insufficient. Although I can't afford paid add ons, I'm leaving minibb, because I know exactly that if I have a problem, I will get support practically immediately (it's one of minibb's best sides) and also to my mind it's minibb what is making family atmosphere on my forum. But it's just my opinion, someone will prefer another free forum with more basic functions, don't you think? ;)

Author Karel II
Registered
#10 | Posted: 24 Apr 2008 12:18 
Sergeusz:
But I think there should be more free add ons, because minibb now needs to be oriented towards large community forums too.

It is really hard for me to resist flaming. The only "argument" I miss here is that Paul and his small team is to blame because they sabotage Internet discussion. :D

If I want something and I don't have money for it and don't know anyone who will buy it for me, I must learn how to live without it. Trying to persuade someone to replace his own priorities with my own and reasoning that it is "needed" - sorry but I don't get it.

Author Sergeusz
Registered
#11 | Posted: 24 Apr 2008 12:32 
Karel II:
If I want something and I don't have money for it and don't know anyone who will buy it for me, I must learn how to live without it.

Oh, maybe you don't understand me, but I'm living now without many essential parts of minibb, although my forum's members are asking me everytime to make anything with this. But I'm only 17, so I don't earn much money, and a big sum is spent on domen name and hosting. I don't mean that if I need more free add ons, Paul must work hard every day and make at least one more free add on every week :D No. I have just said that the amount of add ons in my opinion needs to be enlarged. If they can't be free, please make paid add ons, for instance, hanks button, it will be better for the forum, because there will be people who will decide to bye it.

Author Paul
Lead Developer
#12 | Posted: 28 Apr 2008 07:07 | Edited by: Paul 
Karel II, I absolutely support you in this case :-)

Sergeusz:
probably minibb is now your main earnings

So far miniBB isn't our main earning, unfortunately. Still it gives too little money comparing to the business of such kind, and we are having our main job, so it is not always possible even to watch the forums each day. However it brings a human interest to work, and finally it brings a lot of things which are not straightly valued by money. The earnings we receive just stimulate to support this project in general, pay for the hosting fees, reply on forums, continue to develop stable versions of the core and the scripts etc. It wouldn't be possible if we wouldn't earn at least something on it. Without earnings, there is no stimulation to work. Look at other forum software projects (I mean qualified projects, not collective students open source which expires after they finish the school) - how many of them are living for years? 3-4 years is enough for any kind of project that is left by its author later. Either it is a profitable business, either it is nothing.

We are standing very closely to 7 years period - a time when something is needed to change in our life else it will have no meaning. And sorry, developing tons of features is not the main thing on Earth we should take care on.

Sergeusz:
But I think there should be more free add ons, because minibb now needs to be oriented towards large community forums too.

Your large community doesn't depend on the features at all. Of course any new thing you introduce, will bring positive emotions from your members, specially if it's a well-thought and notable feature. However any community is always based only on what people write and discuss, and how they are exchanging opinions. This is also the main stuff which could give you a profit from search engine view and targeted advertisements.

We think in the current version miniBB has almost everything to manage a big community. Look at the sites like Polish Forums, Indostan or Radioscanner - they all have started with basic miniBB, but within time, they all have invested a lot in making their forums bigger and better. Still, none of the mentioned sites gives an impression it is using the same engine. That is the main sense we promote in miniBB - make a great start, and customize it to your own wish further, so it is different from others.

Sergeusz:
someone will prefer another free forum with more basic functions, don't you think

We think yes, absolutely, but preferring a forum software is not the key to success, and we could reply only: why not? If you like Alpha, why to go for Omega? Take your Omega and be happy, but let us enjoy the Aplha.

It can have 1000+ features, but the community always starts with a topic of discussion. If you think the good community is about constant chatting with no end and visible sense, where most of replies are consisting of smilies only, we don't think it's useful. And it's not very intelligent at all. Our software is pretending to be intelligent... not for wide masses as we propose it.

So when you are choosing miniBB, you are choosing the style of life, the genre of thinking, philosophy of your own. It's the same principle as miniBB team is living by. And when you are standing behind the community, it's like we are standing behind it, too. It's not like about a lot of features at all.

Sergeusz:
I'm living now without many essential parts of minibb, although my forum's members are asking me everytime to make anything with this

Why not to ask your members pay for them? You can give them Karel's words. No shop gives you the milk for free; Internet is the same. It will be completely paid sometimes. You don't get the things if you think Internet is free. It's free only because somebody has paid for it already.

Also, it is one of the main plans of miniBB too... You get the software for free, free basic support and some other things to start. Here is the sense, because if you have a bad start, you probably won't even need to support it in the future and can close the project with no loss. However if your project grows, it's time to think how to earn on it and how to invest in it.

You are a young man and should be even more open-minded in that case than anybody from our team ;-)

Sergeusz:
I have just said that the amount of add ons in my opinion needs to be enlarged.

Your opinion can't be counted because it is still the only one. I think it's a mistake of most open source software developers, when they are counting on just one idea. Somebody comes to their forum and gives an idea which is then supported by 3-4 people. They are developing it, it brings even more bugs and holes; then one idea brings another and it looks like never ending process: new ideas - new programming - new errors - ideas how to fix new errors - fixing of new errors - new ideas... A cycle which always leads to nowhere. Ask any big software developers how they achieve the stable thing with hundreds of programmers... and they will answer you: we have a plan and follow it. If we don't follow the plan, we can't finish the program.

But WE are trying to finish the program, we have a plan and we follow it. That's why I am answering you: no more feature will be developed in the nearest months, except for the features which can be paid straight away. We are not interested in changing our strategies just because somebody may need it.

I don't argue, there are very useful opinions and ideas which could be useful for tons of people, if implemented; but... how could we know that? The only one way to know that is to implement that and look how it works in a crowd. Most often the crowd even does not pay attention to it; and it becomes the feature which is developed only for the person who suggested it.

I personally don't see much sense in digging posts. It is not a purpose of forum. It doesn't bring anything useful to forum at all. What do you have to say against? Why do you think it could be useful?

If I would had for example, hundred of people here asking for digging posts add-on, like it was with smilies add-on sometimes, I would definitely give it a go. However with only your opinion and no business you have, why would I being interested even to listen to it...

Sorry for so long post - I will be never tired to talk about the concepts :-)

Author Sergeusz
Registered
#13 | Posted: 28 Apr 2008 11:54 
Paul:
Sorry for so long post - I will be never tired to talk about the concepts :-)

Why sorry?)) It's very interesting for me (and I hope not only for me) to know what do you think about minibb, so I've read everything:)

Paul:
Your large community doesn't depend on the features at all.

Yes, I agree. But people sometimes don't understand it. When I upgrade my forum to the latest version, the amount of people that register and stayed at forum has increased greatly. So I made a conclusion that before this forum looked too simple and people had been thinking that it's not very large community. And my main competitor has a vBulletin installed and design made specially for this site. So people sometimes prefer tons of graphic and functions, although it doesn't mean a good community.

Paul:
Why not to ask your members pay for them? You can give them Karel's words. No shop gives you the milk for free; Internet is the same. It will be completely paid sometimes. You don't get the things if you think Internet is free. It's free only because somebody has paid for it already.

I've told them it many times. But I have a big problem) Members of the forum are mostly teenagers 12-14 years old, so they have practically no money. And one more problem) My forum is oriented on Russian. And Russian people, as I have noticed, have a very big disadvantage: they like use something, but don't like do something to help it. I suggested them to pay for 1 dollar (it isn't such a big sum even for teenager) in order to buy Private messages add-on. Nobody have answered. So from the beginnig of my project I understood that its development depends only on me.

Paul:
I personally don't see much sense in digging posts. It is not a purpose of forum. It doesn't bring anything useful to forum at all. What do you have to say against? Why do you think it could be useful?

When you look at a forum and see that a lot of people have said thank you, it's a stimulation to work further.

Paul:
However with only your opinion and no business you have, why would I being interested even to listen to it...

Isn't it too rude? I understand that it's not interesting to listen to people that can't buy your products, but I'm a man who is using your forum for 9 months (practically a baby))) and isn't it interesting just a bit what do I think about minibb?.. I'm not a guest or a visitor that have used minibb less than 1 day...

Author Paul
Lead Developer
#14 | Posted: 28 Apr 2008 12:34 | Edited by: Paul 
With your project, it really only depends on you how you move it further, and more important - why are you doing it. I never created projects for teenagers because they probably need to be sponsored by government institutions; but whatever I could say - if your forums are based on your altruism, our product it based on it as well, we develop it and give tons of people for free the basic version, we give them an option to try. So you try, you like it, but for making it even more perfect or suitable just for your needs, you need to buy something. That's what's the business about.

Sergeusz:
Isn't it too rude? I understand that it's not interesting to listen to people that can't buy your products, but I'm a man who is using your forum for 9 months (practically a baby))) and isn't it interesting just a bit what do I think about minibb?.. I'm not a guest or a visitor that have used minibb less than 1 day...

I haven't said that it is not interesting for me to listen to opinions... it is always worth of course. I've only meant why I would be interested in developing this add-on if I know only couple of people around, incl. you, who value it? Your opinion is good, but I also have my own, and I disagree with you. I don't see much sense in this add-on, I don't have time to work on it, I am the professional developer and I call my price. If you are not able to pay it, hire other people, most likely from your community area, who could do a programming for free. Why not?

Stimulation to work - huh... Messages can be rated simply by giving them "like" or "dislike" points. First of all, such approach is far subjective and is based on private opinions as well; when you see most rated posts, it doesn't give you a lot of objective view, specially if they are separated from the topics context. And what happens if somebody doesn't receive "a stimulation to work", i.e. nobody rates his/her postings? He will leave the forum probably; but isn't it bad? What happens if users will begin to cheat just because of these ratings? What happens if groups of users will begin support themselves, giving high ratings only to the postings of certain people, don't you see a forums racism here?

Additionally, such add-on requires a lot of discussion and developing plan. How to implement this, how to implement that, how this will look, and where it will be stored, and how. It's not just that simple as you say "I want to develop it" and we develop it. There is hundred of discussed things which we should know about before any programming. I suppose if you are a young man you don't even know what the project description means. Who will pay for all that? We ourselves? We have more important tasks to do even regarding miniBB.

If you want to stimulate your users, pay them for writing, give them some prizes... these virtual points are really for kids, sorry.

Other question - how many people on your forums are requesting this feature? All members can't be true. I suppose they are just few the same people who are always trying to bring you more problems. And you are trying to listen to them, being sure it will be worth for everybody.

9 months well... try to run it for years then we'll see ;-)

Author Sergeusz
Registered
#15 | Posted: 28 Apr 2008 12:55 | Edited by: Sergeusz 
The longer I'm discussing with you minibb, the more frequently I'm thinking that you think that I'm begging for paid add-onns for free. No. You've done your work and it must be paid for.

Paul:
I also have my own, and I disagree with you.

OK you are here the boss, so I can't do anything, if you disagree wit me ;)

May be your opinion about this add on is right, who knows?..

Paul:
9 months well... try to run it for years then we'll see ;-)

It's no problem, because I've told earlier that I'm not intending to change forum. If i will be using minibb for 5 years will you do this add on free? :-D

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