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How to see new threads without refreshing ?

Author Katrinaa
Guest
#1 | Posted: 3 Mar 2008 05:24 
Is it possible to see new threads without refreshing or just get an audio alert if other windows are open ?

Is it possible out to filter out the forums and subforums I do not need from the main list of threads of all forums/subforums ?

The autorefreshing of thread list is an extremely well idea which I see in use at http://www.planetblur.org/beta/index.php?shard=forum&channel=18

Author Paul
Lead Developer
#2 | Posted: 3 Mar 2008 09:31 | Edited by: Paul 
Katrinaa:
Is it possible to see new threads without refreshing or just get an audio alert if other windows are open ?

I am afraid this is not possible.

Katrinaa:
Is it possible out to filter out the forums and subforums I do not need from the main list of threads of all forums/subforums ?

I did not understand what do you mean.

Katrinaa:
The autorefreshing of thread list is an extremely well idea which I see in use at...

You are showing us the AJAX forum. I am afraid AJAX is out of concept of miniBB, totally (as to mention some AJAX modules are few times bigger in filesize else the whole miniBB).

Author Katrinaa
Guest
#3 | Posted: 3 Mar 2008 19:03 
Thanks a lot. With time eveything changes and user not having to refresh is really a good idea.

There is no harm in testing something out, so may be the above link can be tested out :) - it will explain what is filtering out forums not wanted.

The size difference is not much ... minibb 900kb, that "ajax" forum is an extra 400kb to 500kb - with new genaration hardware and increased space available on share hosts these days both are really light weight, and cpu/resource consumption seems to be comparable in both cases.

I guess sooner or later all forums will have this auto-updating list page :)

Author tom322
Registered
#4 | Posted: 3 Mar 2008 20:10 
I think it would be annoying if it's turned on as default (then the developer would have to program an option for user to turn it on/off).. Unless you mean chat software where auto-refresh is a must :).

Author Paul
Lead Developer
#5 | Posted: 4 Mar 2008 04:27 
Katrinaa:
it will explain what is filtering out forums not wanted

We have a forums checker tool which works approximately by the same schema, when you could select only forums you would like to check messages in, and then check out these forums constantly for only the new messages appearing. I suppose in this tool it would be possible to create some kind of auto-refreshing, but I honestly doubt it is needed. I am moderating miniBB forums twice a day and entering this tool manually to see what's new. I am not sitting on the site the whole day - what for? I am saving my time.

The purpose of forums is exactly like this... you can leave the message, then somebody answers... later you check on and read the answer. It could happen in chat mode of course, when the messages are posted instantly, but honestly - if you have a lot of users like those who post often, why to not install the chat software for them? It would be more suitable... such messages often do not make sense for the content at all.

As you may see on forums you provided, the answers to the most threads are given not in seconds. This means the auto-refreshing has no sense for the users who ask - most likely they prefer not to wait to be answered and leave the site anyway, entering it much much later.

So I perfectly know what the idea of blursoft forums is about, but I am against any kind of JavaScript in the program where it's not needed it all.

Katrinaa:
I guess sooner or later all forums will have this auto-updating list page

I guess not. Forums is a separate niche on the market and their goal is not to create chat, but to create a useful content, knowledge base, support desk or something like this. Additionally, refreshing like this requires COMPLETE rewriting of the core. I doubt forum companies which run the forum software nowadays will be ready to invest big time and efforts in covering the feature which may be needed for little percentage of visitors only.

Author Katrinaa
Guest
#6 | Posted: 4 Mar 2008 04:43 
Hi - Thanks a lot. Thanks all.

Most of the time, as it happens with Opera, when you reopen the browser it shows up the page you have last seen UNLESS you manually refresh. This happens with minibb too when I see it in Opera. It may happen in other browser/version too - I am not sure.

The blursoft forum is a slow one, and in some forums we have activities at certain times of the day, when we ourselves are also doing multi-window browsing. I guess at times like this, an auto-updating list comes handy.

There is no issue of bringing chat software here, and what may seem to be handy for a small handful ( and hence not worthwhile implementing) may actually become useful when actually it is there ( like gmail, while others were stubborn to implement these features)
I do not think that this needs any massive re-do of the core.

I guess I lack enough tecnicality to convince, so thanks and bookmarking this thread to come back to it after 4 or 5 years to check if opinions have changed by demand of time :)

Author Paul
Lead Developer
#7 | Posted: 4 Mar 2008 04:51 | Edited by: Paul 
Opera naturally works with the cache that way... When the page is saved in cache there is nothing to do from the programming side. I suspect even blursoft forums could be buggy in that aspect.

And sorry... we are not so rich to care about the browser which is used by 1.5% or something like this... ;-)

Katrinaa:
The blursoft forum is a slow one...

that's all because of the AJAX and tons of JavaScript.

Again to repeat, at the current stage I am against anything which combines an auto and an elephant. Chat and Gmail require constant auto refreshing that's why this option is there. Forum software is for a static bulletin board which builds the constant content. As you say you have activities at certain times of the day and certain times mean there is nothing to automatically refresh. For certain times a day refer to our checker tool as I mentioned above... you'll love it after you get into it ;-)

Author Katrinaa
Guest
#8 | Posted: 4 Mar 2008 04:57 
Ummmm ... Paul, Thanks a LOT too for the forums checker tool ( wish it was in core, with admin ability to enable a default-disabled one) .... Thanks , it is a very good tool, and I have really missed it before. Maybe some one is going to create a $5 ajax list tool too :)

Author Katrinaa
Guest
#9 | Posted: 4 Mar 2008 04:59 
No nO .. blursoft is NOT slow in that sense, I meant the technical team takes a lot of time to answer ..... blursoft is very fast thatway, and in opera it has no problem of autorefreshing .... I have seen your point :) and thanks again for the link to that splendid forum chekcres tool !

Author Paul
Lead Developer
#10 | Posted: 5 Mar 2008 05:39 | Edited by: Paul 
Katrinaa:
The size difference is not much ... minibb 900kb, that "ajax" forum is an extra 400kb to 500kb - with new generation hardware and increased space available on share hosts these days both are really light weight, and cpu/resource consumption seems to be comparable in both cases.

900 Kb for miniBB? Our zip package size is less than 180 Kb, unpacked 473 Kb, but this is all because there is a big manual (150 Kb), there is README and COPYING license which are 17 Kb, and there is a lot of files which could be removed, and then the working files size is less than 250 Kb UNPACKED. Ok you can add checker tool which is about 35 Kb, and each new feature basically brings a 'weight'... but this is still less than for blursoft forum (1.2 Mb!).

The question is here not about the new generation hardware or specially web space: in the scripting world, each Kb has importance because this script maybe called by THOUSANDS of users at one time... and as less size it has, as more resources it will leave for other tasks, as more visitors will be allowed to enter. I doubt metaforum can handle hundreds of users per seconds, but miniBB can.

Katrinaa:
There is no issue of bringing chat software here, and what may seem to be handy for a small handful ( and hence not worthwhile implementing) may actually become useful when actually it is there ( like gmail, while others were stubborn to implement these features)

You're right, Gmail was the website giving this AJAX "technology" a breathe, but you should agree it all is a political question... In the software world, there is a lot of politics too. miniBB was always being out of politics... most probably it stands more closely to some religion... Buddhism... or similar. But we hate politics here ;-)

And what I could say - this is what AJAX suggests nowadays, must be worked out on W3C giving new standard a go, and it must be supported at the browser level. What we currently have with AJAX, is a set of perverted JavaScript commands which gives the feeling of a "new" language at the same it is just a perverted old technology. This is definitely what I can't put in miniBB which concept is "software for ages", i.e. it should work with the minimum requirements. AJAX is not a technology for ages. Come to this thread in 5 years and you'll see...

Katrinaa:
Maybe some one is going to create a $5 ajax list tool too

Regarding our rates it pays the 15 minutes of our job and I doubt it would be possible ;-)

For such price you can't buy even a pack of cigarettes in Europe ;-) Not saying about food... I doubt programmers should be at the stage when they work just for "thanks".

Author Katrinaa
Guest
#11 | Posted: 5 Mar 2008 18:24 
LOL, no I meant when it is available for $5 there will be at least 500 purchasers or may be 5000 ( or may be so much that you may buy even a cigarette company )

It is true time only can tell what will stay and what will not, and what will get incorporated into 'basic' or 'core' of a script.

The users do not see the programmer's perspective, thats the problem. Ajax also allows an user to read the thread without entering and even make a quick reply without entering it. To some this might be extremely useful.

Author Paul
Lead Developer
#12 | Posted: 6 Mar 2008 03:06 | Edited by: Paul 
The time will show.

Katrinaa:
Ajax also allows an user to read the thread without entering and even make a quick reply without entering it. To some this might be extremely useful.

Still, it is not very clear for me how could you read the thread without entering? If you read... you are entering something anyway.

Author Katrinaa
Guest
#13 | Posted: 7 Mar 2008 11:46 
You basically see the content of the first post of a thread on mouse over [ hovering ] the thread title in the list page. This is I guess not an ajax specific thing - it is present in other scripts also like vbb, and can be done by basic html too.

The blursoft forum adds the added ability to see the last post of a thread on mose over too.
Not entering means you DO NOT have to leave the list page.
This can be done also in 2 pane classical frame view, with the list in one frame, and contents of the thread clicked in another frame. Only thing is that forum users are not probably convenient with this which may appear a bit clumsy.

Author Paul
Lead Developer
#14 | Posted: 7 Mar 2008 13:41 | Edited by: Paul 
Katrinaa:
You basically see the content of the first post of a thread on mouse over [ hovering ] the thread title in the list page.

It is possible to achieve this in miniBB just changing one option. Read more in this thread. It's just a question of modifying non-core files if you would really like to achieve it.

We think topic's title must say it all, as you might know it's also included in SEO concepts: document's title is important. And don't forget we are "mini" ;-) So we don't like this "feature" and don't include it by default.

Haven't I told you miniBB allows to implement 99% of the custom feature at the add-ons level? Even if you need some feature we could implement it for a fee. You could sponsor any feature and will be in miniBB hall of fame, forever.

So whatever you mentioned could be implemented in miniBB as a custom add-on for you.

Author Katrinaa
Guest
#15 | Posted: 7 Mar 2008 17:40 
Well ..thats great!
I will sure contact to know an estimate :)

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