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Swapping Login fields and Submit button (when posting a new thread or reply)

Author EinfachClicken
#1 | Posted: 2 Jan 2008 08:14 
Hi there,
Here's our new german forum:

There are a couple of things that really bug me - visually - and I don't know enough about this forum/code to make the changes without wasting a lot of my time. I say this because I'm certain that the change is very simple for those who already know the code and pages very well.

If you click on this link .... any of the forum topics ....

Everything EXCEPT THE SUBMIT function makes sense to new internet and forum users. Just as it should be ...

1. Subject
2. Subject Topic
3. Enter own Topic Title
4. Enter your Text
5. Should LOGICALLY be to SUBMIT the Text.

However, instead of being able to submit, the user first sees the line with the login and password function. Well, we're trying to create one of the largest most user friendly websites in Germany .... user friendly even for internet newbies, younger children, seniors, etc. and I'm certain that for those groups of people, the SUBMIT YOUR POST button would be much more appropriately displayed if it came in 5th place (see list above), and then the login/password function below that .... perhaps even with a bit of extra space in order to separate those two items a little more.

Considering that with captcha, people can generate anonymous or guest posts anyway, it seems even to me, someone who's been using the internet since 1991, as though it would make more sense that way. So, can someone please tell me specifically on which files and where on those files, I can find those two cells, so that I can swap them with each other? Your help is greatly appreciated. Thank you so much.

Author tom322
#2 | Posted: 2 Jan 2008 08:42 
I think a php file (core-destructive) would be needed to change. But then - if you consider web usability - how about anonymous users? If you hide the username field, all guest posters would have to have the same username (like "Anonymous"); adding the Required Username solution would prevent that and make even the anonymous posts more user/web friendly.

Author Paul
Lead Developer
#3 | Posted: 2 Jan 2008 08:53 
I am online since 1995 and in forum software never saw such approach you suggest, and in miniBB, there is no easy way to swap these fields (since login fields, topic form template and post form template are stored in the different templates and are combined on the whole page on the fly).

The templates are


I suppose there could be an add-on which generates posting button depending on what action is loaded, and then pastes this button in user_login_form.html; so this button also needs to be removed from main_topics.html and main_posts.html.

So it would be a non-core destructive solution still.

You can also simply remove log-in fields from the mentioned templates, but I am afraid it will be very user-unfriendly for those who want to log-in and post the message simultaneously, for example, or just to login on the thread page.

So I could work on it only for additional fee, it would take hour of work or so...

Author EinfachClicken
#4 | Posted: 2 Jan 2008 09:42 
Okay, I guess perhaps I was expecting a bit too much from this forum purchase?

First, I knew just by looking at the code and templates, that this should or would not be a core destructive change since the existing information within those cells remains the same. I just wanted to be able to swap the page location of a cell that's located on "line 40" (for lack of better words), to then show up directly UNDERNEATH the cell that's located on line 41 ...
Didn't think that it would be any problem ... or that it would take an hour worth of programming costs. OUCH, that seems a little extreme!

I'm seeing a lot of posts where people are looking for help, advice, whatever, and far too often your answer comes back with ... pay me, pay me, pay me!

Writing this, I'm sure won't get me a lot of help here, but I have to tell you Paul, that I do find your "Pay me approach" a little overbearing, now, having seen quite a few posts with your answers like that.

YES ... the forum is MiniBB but don't you understand that that is precisely why many "not so technically inclined" people would find such a product more interesting, than a product with 10x more files to work with?
YES ... people should be paid for their time, but when I pay money for a product, I, like most people out there, expect a little more support than just words like .... Hey, read the manual, dude!
YES ... People should know a little something about the products that they use, but I've seen a few of your posts now where you openly criticize people for "not knowing enough" or by asking them why they bother to have a server or a website, if they have so many questions? Hmmm, that honestly doesn't seem very professional or open minded to me?

Paul, you need to keep in mind that the internet from the 90s has come a long long way. Just HTML, Tabling, and JavaScripting, is more than enough for many Webmasters out there. PLUS cgi/perl scripting, PLUS server administration, PLUS Grafic Designing, PLUS seamless software integration, and so on, and so forth. You can't possibly expect people to know anything or much of anything ... when you publically offer free OpenSource Software which is of highest interest to those who have little money to spend? With all of your commerical add-ons, plugins, etc. our forum suddenly becomes MORE EXPENSIVE than many other forums out there ... most of which provide better support to their clients.

I don't know what other users are thinking when the come here for help, but I come here for one reason only .... The Fact that there's no doubt in my mind that you can do in 10 or 15 Minutes, what it would take me an hour or more to do. And like it or not Paul, at least to me, that's part of NORMAL free support, for which nobody should have to pay anything if they've already paid you for a license and/or additional add-on modules to your software.

When I look at OpenSource, software like The Gimp, Linux, OpenOffice, Filezilla, WebCal (just to name a few) you'll never find someone on their user forums coming up with answers about being paid etc. These are programms that are much, much larger and way more comprehensive than MiniBB - but with massive help & solution resources too !!!
(often written in plain easy to understand english)

Considering how much work I'm seeing that others are putting into MiniBB for you, in order to help make MiniBB even better - FOR FREE - it really makes me wonder how much of your earned income you've been giving to those members? My own problem with your manual is the fact that a lot of it is not written very user friendly at all, in plain, easy to understand english, and that there are quite a few errors that make some sentences even more difficult to understand ... if you're not such a super professional as you so obviously must be.

I know, it's probably hard for you to believe, but I really am not trying to upset you. Admittedly, it's quite annoying to me though, to come to this forum for help .... read about 200 posts and replies .... while seeing what seems to be easy answers to easy questions, and "pay me answers" when the questions get a little tougher. THAT was certainly not what I had expected. Sorry, if my post seems a bit strong, but I feel that someone had to say these words ... even if that meant being ignored from this point on. Ah, well. Have a nice day anyway!

Greetings from Germany!

Author Paul
Lead Developer
#5 | Posted: 2 Jan 2008 11:23 
Instead of writing such long opus you would just modify the templates I mentioned and think about how it could be implemented.

miniBB is the software for those who thinks by the way. It's nowhere said it's for newbies. You can combine its modules and pay the price for the features you choose. That's the serious business plan which can't be compared to the "others" you mention because nobody in forum software business provides such plan. That's why it is "mini".

I just would mention miniBB is supported and developed ONLY BY ME, specially in the past 3 years. I am providing support, management, advertisement, development and other producing related to this project. miniBB has no investments like other big open source projects you mentioned (they are millions-invested; miniBB has investments which are only coming from my own pocket). I hope that will clarify most of your questions.

Previous was just my reply and I am not intended to argue what you wrote. If somebody else will help you free here, I will be only thankful.

Finally, you have not purchased the forum like you say. You have purchased copyright removal and couple of add-ons, thus two of them I have supplied for free because of the Christmas sale.

It's very impolite. Your question is related to your site. It's not related to miniBB at all. Read our forum rules before being so sure.

Author Paul
Lead Developer
#6 | Posted: 2 Jan 2008 11:42 | Edited by: Paul 
Without letting this thread become a garbage against personality (as usual) I will be a poor Jesus and shut it up providing the solution.

So, for swapping Post button and Login fields on the topics listing page, you should modify the following templates:

*) Open main_post_form.html for editing

*) Open main_post_area.html for editing

*) Open user_login_form.html for editing

*) main_post_area.html - cut off the posting button code (both JS and noscript sections) and move/paste it to main_post_form.html after {$loginLogout}

*) user_login_form.html - cut {$l_anonTxt} and move/paste it to main_post_form.html after posting button code you just inserted

*) Save and close all above opened files

*) Edit main_topics.html and remove posting button code from there

*) Edit tools_edit_post.html and remove posting button code from there

*) In bb_plugins.php paste the following snippet (it will generate the proper titles for new topic, new message or editing message forms):

/* Moved submit buttons */
if($action=='vtopic') {
if($user_id==0) $l_sub_post_msg=$l_enterforums.'/'.$l_sub_post_tpc; else $l_sub_post_msg=$l_sub_post_tpc;
elseif($action=='editmsg') $l_sub_post_msg=$l_edit;
/* --Moved submit buttons */

*) Most probably you would also need to edit user_logged_in.html and remove the HTML for logout code (since the logout link doesn't look smooth if you swap the submit button).

I hope it is clear enough for Internet gurus.

This is how it could look finally (property of ;-)

- when user is not logged in:

Swapped Submit Button

- when user is logged in:

Submit Button in posting area

Author EinfachClicken
#7 | Posted: 2 Jan 2008 11:45 
You wrote:
So I could work on it only for additional fee, it would take hour of work or so...

... And that's what I answered to.

As far as the OpenSource Software is concerned which I mentioned, you're completely wrong. The Gimp, FileZilla, WebCal and many others are gigantic projects with ZERO funding or only donations.
Sun Microsystems endorses OpenOffice, but ALL FUNDING for OpenOffice is 100% private and voluntary, just like for Wikipedia. The Gimp, for that matter, is a gigantic project that was completely driven by one person for many years too ... just like MiniBB ... and just like EinfachClicken.

Sorry that the post upset you so much that it had to be deleted.
I answered a written comment and didn't think that that was breaking the posting rules ... but you're right, I didn't read them first.

Author Paul
Lead Developer
#8 | Posted: 2 Jan 2008 11:47 | Edited by: Paul 
I liked your post. I will never remove it. It has so much keywords in it :-)

But I won't pay you. Enjoy your free solution (no you've been answered but didn't see it because it appears I am answering immediately which nobody will do on the software forums, trust me - you would have to wait up to 48 hours normally).

P.S. There are no free things in this world. Even if you receive something for free, that means somebody already have paid for it. I know Big Projects you mentioned are well paid by investors and PR companies, because in the past I have worked for one of them.

Author EinfachClicken
#9 | Posted: 2 Jan 2008 13:00 
Thanks a lot for your time anyway.
I implemented the changes that you suggested (see how much time was saved, and it didn't take either one of us very long that way) but that still didn't quite do what I expected. I'll go ahead and start another thread because now I know for sure what I'm looking for.
Sorry to have taken up so much of your time.

PS: I've been working on the forum for 12 hours now but I'm just not smart enough to figure out how to get those email registrations working. Yes, I've been reading the manual too .... I guess it's just a matter of understanding the wording ... ??? It should be easy, but since there isn't even a registration startup page with a mandatory email, login, pwd function, it's beyond me. Probably too easy ... ;^D
Ah, well.

Author Paul
Lead Developer
#10 | Posted: 2 Jan 2008 14:08 | Edited by: Paul 
I suppose since 1991 you have spent too much time on dating sites instead of learning how to search :-) Now, exclusive FREE step-by-step lesson for you and everybody else from the Internet monster and dating sites Boss, i.e. Me.

Opening the manual what I am doing in Firefox:

1) Press Ctrl + F (Find panel is opened at the bottom browser part)

2) Enter the word registration in the panel

3) Click "Next" until it finds the proper setting which says: setting this to 1, it is possible to avoid "open" registrations. By default when user registers, he enters desired login/password and from the first step becomes a registered user. It is possible to avoid incorrect email address upon registration in that case. If you set this setting to 1 (default is still 0 or unset), on the registration form user will not see the password field, and will receive it via email provided upon registration (password will be generated automatically). The setting is called $closeRegister and is commented (i.e. inactive) by default. ($5 Hint: search by 'COMMENTED' in Firefox and you will know from the same manual what it means).

Supposing this is the setting you're looking for I would end up; but if you read the setting's description further, you would understand some additional steps are required to implement it on a user-friendly level, because miniBB programmers are so dirty pigs because they think acceptance by email is the thing for email collectors and flooders that's why they don't even care by default what kind of email users are entering, making the life of the users much simpler.

Because of these steps I am thinking at a deep level, then go to miniBB forums search and enter just one word $closeRegister and specifying "topic titles only", supposing if this question is asked by ME, the Internet Boss, why shouldn't it be asked by other people, and why this ugly bastard Paul haven't posted the FREE CUSTOM SOLUTION for it?

Here is what I have: just one topic found. And it appears to be exactly what's needed.

Comments?.. It took me 1 minute to find what I am looking for and 15 minutes to post this awesome message.

Please decide first what and how you need to implement before asking and don't be rude teaching me how to live. Aufwiedersehen.

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